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From owner-fx-discuss@ideosphere.com Sun Mar 3 18:51:54 2019 Received: from ideosphere.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ideosphere.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x23Npsir004952 for <fx-discuss-outgoing@ideosphere.com>; Sun, 3 Mar 2019 18:51:54 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ideosphere.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id x23NpsTX004951 for fx-discuss-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 2019 18:51:54 -0500 Received: from smtpq3.tb.ukmail.iss.as9143.net (smtpq3.tb.ukmail.iss.as9143.net [212.54.57.98]) by ideosphere.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x23NprCc004947 for <fx-discuss@ideosphere.com>; Sun, 3 Mar 2019 18:51:53 -0500 Received: from [212.54.57.81] (helo=smtp2.tb.ukmail.iss.as9143.net) by smtpq3.tb.ukmail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from <chrisran.bma@virgin.net>) id 1h0atc-0002Vm-AX for fx-discuss@ideosphere.com; Mon, 04 Mar 2019 00:51:52 +0100 Received: from oxbe22.tb.ukmail.iss.as9143.net ([172.25.160.153]) by smtp2.tb.ukmail.iss.as9143.net with ESMTP id 0atchFSANa26A0atchLi1B; Mon, 04 Mar 2019 00:51:52 +0100 X-Env-Mailfrom: chrisran.bma@virgin.net X-Env-Rcptto: fx-discuss@ideosphere.com X-SourceIP: 172.25.160.153 X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=eNltc0h1 c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=5wu1Y50LhckgQxBsZY6PPw==:117 a=gGVcTlt46JMA:10 a=pR9j2mhmt4wA:10 a=L76QRiJ-AAAA:8 a=2Qjoi-dzAAAA:8 a=Bu-VUQT-XFjXlZxURhMA:9 a=Z-56JQ-2GV6PWcxa:21 a=BcAcE4xWUbE-JKkv:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Ysz4nU076FKz4RDtFBkA:9 a=9PYcXqIfkURYSJu4:21 a=tRAlisN8ofnuHD5U:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=eDB5I_EjBj3PdpOE-XBB:22 X-Authenticated-Sender: chrisran.bma@virgin.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=virgin.net; s=meg.feb2017; t=1551657112; bh=efsHhDospRcufom6tgpK494vXrhcSOqWC5ZEEox/8+I=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject; b=kD8jg1s3ki6vz+IsgrtXKGFuKBBp6uElQghk8APIYv7fU0RDpwmd7YgsnlhZyD52N f7LKe16eyEXoHRTYETLu6QWV3qwTXOvEm7IzHu2Db+MOJYaNmjB/UFBoypiqfi/RJ5 V9GJ4RwerLGkhpBbwp3gzCLoLh8Dgp/kMBIkSi+eeEPlwcxnTRr+D7YDjHMKze4JaG IG6Oigi5NZo/L3gHj8jI78FaMgNN3TuYdIsMp1Cm240U8thD5zuz8kE9x4g/2Ocs5n JKqzn2Ou4VICcwWC5r3XGEV9JHAaK0kfZtVbVD+0UMKvBC3mOSQwQaZHfixta3ALD7 Vqe+L2tc2aBjQ== Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2019 23:51:52 +0000 (GMT) From: "chrisran.bma e-mail" <chrisran.bma@virgin.net> To: fx-discuss@ideosphere.com Message-ID: <209025103.325383.1551657112191@mail2.virginmedia.com> In-Reply-To: <CAD=nd8c1cXbTZwnFuQ_9-58yy3nVjSpk5J5LA+YVJ1SzN9TdDw@mail.gmail.com> References: <555197137.1260514.1484754691514.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxbe15.tb.ukmail.iss.as9143.net> <5ff0ce7a-65f1-fff3-ad64-d5fcdfd48a7f@blazde.co.uk> <98fc95b8-23ca-1c35-77a0-2c67e05d6bd1@blazde.co.uk> <CABt=Phb135DhUG3AXuaZ0g-D=Ju5OZhWs5ztVyRfKObAF5VYDQ@mail.gmail.com> <CABt=PhazeuD=V5vFSgDjHYoevCjHUb40t8=7LwJsLPpuOdQ+MA@mail.gmail.com> <CAAra84T29VgTEPW_VccE6NyiLVV-pcq1KWYNP-eUA=XHMtsc1g@mail.gmail.com> <CAD=nd8dKQA3xtGD_8Kg8JujgDPmEVBkXXDd-Sbgn7CBP2B_X8g@mail.gmail.com> <416993406.1320366.1484912813637.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxbe15.tb.ukmail.iss.as9143.net> <d91864b0-dbf9-ac3c-8ef4-bb9d0b879eef@blazde.co.uk> <CAD=nd8dvd2UfmeKkcMKmpXkWu=_uf14MnwV8khapOBvuDxAVFg@mail.gmail.com> <37b4104e-24d4-9e0b-a1a8-6a607c5daef9@blazde.co.uk> <CAD=nd8e4FK-QvKW+9Uu-TN7S0ynByMY_TKPJ5wvHOapTFUP3ew@mail.gmail.com> <CAAra84TAwHCn71xX+itQY1DX+w6=YVjSt-SDYhCyLG4pUOWC9w@mail.gmail.com> <CAD=nd8fbgJa5Hk_fWjNot=eFuPNp+Qvz3uwaPg4g1n+NFFSgRw@mail.gmail.com> <fda9abc1-04d6-942e-f064-dc55103f8c6d@blazde.co.uk> <CAD=nd8eQ6o0skM2XfVXNAyNnYR-K+9BxWD2TD=_ziSo6oAdg7g@mail.gmail.com> <CAD=nd8ewUByWczEt2A+dYyox+JNJJi18hsfZ4+_8mRiNs2wkww@mail.gmail.com> <901136494.1350219.1485009272539.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxbe15.tb.ukmail.iss.as9143.net> <1690873305.1573107.1532522106660@mail2.virginmedia.com> <1526518883.86807.1543247908025@mail2.virginmedia.com> <CAD=nd8dpobvBDPeJ8W9nG_M-FbDmLw9AMC42e_=7xHzQFbtcrw@mail.gmail.com> <838939616.78030.1547989052012@mail2.virginmedia.com> <1916464669.311016.1551621567401@mail2.virginmedia.com> <CAD=nd8faQ0N0xa1dS5-83w4R0fzhnTKv_cy5eHtWfk31vA8+dw@mail.gmail.com> <579981763.322423.1551646450804@mail2.virginmedia.com> <811674634.322564.1551646955547@mail2.virginmedia.com> <CAD=nd8c1cXbTZwnFuQ_9-58yy3nVjSpk5J5LA+YVJ1SzN9TdDw@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: fx-discuss: FX Claim GDNA - Germ-line DNA altered B4 2020 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_325382_1741814194.1551657112186" X-Priority: 3 Importance: Medium X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.8.4-Rev51 X-Originating-IP: 92.3.8.211 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfE3lUClE57M0s8iznwRwaIqZ31urQyqYEHTMy22i3hVM5jh5/KKQfdgLwVPoRV2g1Qgu3k8XvSu/rjm4IRDl0emjTRAeopBaDWJXVD/GAt1kGMv55iaa WwbLxiAX9FV9Rw8m9IGw2R+AD6s9gSKjI2UuMvx1ynQ2ytR/R+VpVqyx8pIJ4UGhMbI3sBbLq1PPRPT8eLGboM9RtZVynMztRLo= Sender: owner-fx-discuss@ideosphere.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: fx-discuss@ideosphere.com Hi, Earlier articles did not seem to be sure and even now perhaps a little murky. e.g. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/02/china-tightens-its-regulation-some-human-gene-editing-labeling-it-high-risk "In January, a preliminary investigation found that He deliberately sidestepped regulations, dodged oversight, and used fake ethical review documents, according to Chinese media. (No official report was ever publicly released.) But as the scandal unfolded over the past 3 months, many Chinese ethicists and researchers noted that the most relevant regulations date back to 2003 and need updating in light of CRISPR’s emergence and other research advances. The new rules cover experiments that involve gene editing, the transfer of genes or attempts to regulate gene expression, the use of stem cells, and other “high-risk” technologies in humans or in human organs or embryos that would be implanted in a person. All would require approval by a yet-to-be-specified agency under the State Council, the country’s highest administrative authority." If they needed new rules, that may or may not suggest the issue is unclear Anyway, this question you ask seems to lead to a question I asked back on 26/11/18 "I.e. is the claim about it being permitted or about it actually happening?" To attempt an answer to my own question, I would point out the claim's first sentence says YES coupons will pay IF$1 if there is a documented or otherwise verifiable case of intentional human germ-line genetic manipulation before 1/1/2020. I don't see a requirement for it to be legal elsewhere in the claim I also note the judge statement says "In order to be judged true, a human individual has to exist whose germ-line cells contain a genetic modification, and there has to be some reasonable evidence that the individual can biologically (and legally) have progeny that inherit that modification." These seem to be implying that if an individual exists then it has been allowed to happen. I do concede it may be possible to read the third paragraph providing background to the issue makes it seem as if the question is about whether the event is 'ethically allowed to happen'. Does existence such individuals mean it has been allowed to happen, even though there perhaps were rules against it they perhaps weren't strong enough to prevent it? Anyway it appears to me that the third paragraph is just background info about the issue and doesn't seem to add any requirements to the claim whether that is for the procedure to have to be legal or anything else. Regards Chris (7886 crandles still holding +302) > On 03 March 2019 at 22:00 Neal Gafter <fx1@neal.gafter.com> wrote: > > Do we believe this work was legally permitted when and where it occurred? > Back to regular message display | |||
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